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"Do you believe this?" An amalgam of pertinent considerations
by Antonio da Rosa
Brothers and sisters. What is the aim of our evangelism, what are the objectives of our endeavors? Simply put, we are seeking men and women to believe the "this" of Christ's question in John 11:26.
Friend, Jesus is the resurrection and the life! He guarantees eternal life and resurrection to all who believe in Him! Do you believe this? To believe this is to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God! How do we know that to be true? Martha sufficiently informs us in her answer to Jesus in John 11:27
Those who have a general and arbitrary understanding of what John means when he says "but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name" (Jn 20:31) wholesale disregard a careful consideration of the only other usage of the phrase "the Christ, the Son of God" in John's epistle. The discussion with Martha NAILS it (Jn 11:25-27).
Imagine this scenario:
In such a situation, we would clearly identify that believing that the first speaker is "the professor, the teacher [of the] classroom", is believing that he is "the dispenser of homework assignments, the dispenser of tests, the grader of work, the chief in [the] classroom."
This is common sense!
To believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, in its Johannine, soteric usage, is to believe that Jesus is the Resurrection and Life, the Guarantor of eternal life to the believer in Him!
Martha's answer is nothing but a full blown Johannine confession! And it is the only other instance of the phrase consisting of the appositional construction "the Christ, the Son of God" (which we find only in Jn 11:27 & Jn 20:31)! Martha's answer fully discloses for us the import of the belief that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, which makes such belief salvific. John has gone through great pains to define for us how one receives everlasting life (which by the way is the topic of his gospel!). The bottom line for Jesus and John in his writing is that they want us to know, certainly, that we have everlasting life by trusting Jesus, for if we don't, we haven't exercised saving faith, we haven't believed "this"!
"The apostle Paul sums up what Martha, and every Christian, believes when they come to faith in Christ: "However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life" (1 Timothy 1:16). In order to be saved, we must believe on Jesus for everlasting life. On the basis of His death and resurrection, He always fulfills His guarantee to give everlasting life to all who believe in Him for it. Martha did not decide to believe in Jesus for eternal life. She was convinced of the truth of what Jesus said and hence she believed in Him in the biblical sense." (Bob Wilkin, Saving Faith in Focus, Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society)
Throughout the Johannine gospel, John uses the technical phrase denoting saving faith, "pisteuw eis" ("believe in"), in other words, believe in Jesus. Whenever, in any language, someone uses the phrase "believe in" something, the context determines what is the content of that belief.
There are no exceptions!
A quarterback telling a wide receiver, "I believe in you"
(quarterback trusts wide receiver that he can make the play)
A father telling his wife, "I believe in the babysitter"
(father trusts that the babysitter is qualified to take care of his children)
A passenger telling another, "I believe in the airline pilot"
(passenger trusts that the pilot is qualified to take care of his air travel)
A Narcotics Anonymous participant telling a friend, "I believe in the program"
(NA participant trusts that the program works)
The candidate for class president telling the assembly of students, "Believe in me!"
(prospective executive asking the student body to trust him to exceed their expectations in getting the job done)
The teenager telling his folks as he takes the family car out for the day, "Believe in me!"
(teen is asking that they trust him for the well-being of the car)
Jesus says, "whoever believes in Me will not perish but has everlasting life. The one who believes in Me will live. The one who believes in Me shall never die, even into eternity."
Why the disconnect?!!
The context is eternal well-being, and Jesus is saying He is the Savior from perishing and the Guarantor of eternal life! Whoever trusts in Him as the one guaranteeing that they will never perish, but have eternal life, will never perish but have eternal life. The gospel of John is full of these passages and contexts. When He says, "Whoever believes in me shall never perish but have everlasting life" the context is clear. He is eliciting trust in Him FOR the guarantee that they will not perish and FOR everlasting life.
This is the meaning of "believe in" Him in those many contexts in the gospel of John. Jesus is saying, "Believe in Me!", in other words, "Trust Me for your eternal well-being!" There is no other way to take these passages and contexts. You will injure simple interpretation of them by taking them in any other way. Jesus is seeking to get them to rely upon Him for their eternal destinies. He shows Himself authoritative so that people will trust Him.
If I said "I believe in the babysitter" in the context of going out for the evening with my wife, let it be known I certainly mean that I am entrusting the well-fare of my children to the babysitter. When Jesus says that "...whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life" (Jn 3:16) the context is clear. He wants us to entrust our eternal destiny to Him. If I do believe in Him, as the John 3:16 context shows for us, I know that I have everlasting life and will never perish, for the guarantee is inexorably linked to His promise.
Saving faith is believing in Jesus for everlasting life. It is trusting Jesus to guarantee your eternal well-being.
We all agree that saving faith is believing in Jesus. But that statement is useless and worthless without a context. When I say I believe in the babysitter, I don't mean I trust her with my taxes or medical diagnosis! Believing in the babysitter has an irreducible content based upon the context. And that is that you trust the care of your children into her hands.
The same with believing in Jesus. It is as simple as trusting your eternal care into His hands. And when you do that, you know FOR CERTAIN that you are saved. Why? Faith is conviction that something is true. If I believe in Jesus when He says all who believe in Him will never perish and have everlasting life, I consider it true. Therefore, I know I will never perish and I know I have everlasting life.
The saving message is "believe in Jesus"
not
"doubt in Jesus"
The gospel of John is not complex. It is very simple, and he states the saving message throughout the gospel. WHOEVER, no exceptions, believes in Him (and in the context we know that believing in Him is entrusting our eternal destiny to Him, in other words, believing in Him FOR eternal life) has everlasting life. If someone reads the gospel of John and doesn't get that message, I would suggest they take the blindfolds off.
Why was Abraham accounted righteous? Simply because he believed that what God had promised He was able to perform. In other words, Abraham trusted God for the promise, therefore he was accounted righteous.
A friend who once held the view that I take stated the following about this verse: "they need to know His promise and they need to be fully convinced that what He promised He is also able to perform." I say, Amen! And if they are fully convinced of His promise, they know they have it, thus assurance being of the essence of saving faith.
Is this a saving understanding of this verse?
Is a hope-so confidence about going to heaven good enough?
Does it really matter if you know what the gift is?
Could it really be said that the woman believed Jesus if she reinterpreted His words in this manner?
Does it really make any difference if you "believe this"?
Can you believe Jesus or believe in Jesus in the manner He describes without believing "this"? And what is "this," but that the believer is guaranteed eternal life?
John 11:25-26
Jesus said to [Martha], "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
Brothers and sisters. What is the aim of our evangelism, what are the objectives of our endeavors? Simply put, we are seeking men and women to believe the "this" of Christ's question in John 11:26.
Friend, Jesus is the resurrection and the life! He guarantees eternal life and resurrection to all who believe in Him! Do you believe this? To believe this is to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God! How do we know that to be true? Martha sufficiently informs us in her answer to Jesus in John 11:27
She said to Him, "Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God"
Those who have a general and arbitrary understanding of what John means when he says "but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name" (Jn 20:31) wholesale disregard a careful consideration of the only other usage of the phrase "the Christ, the Son of God" in John's epistle. The discussion with Martha NAILS it (Jn 11:25-27).
Imagine this scenario:
A professor was to say this to a student: "I am the dispenser of homework assignments, the dispenser of tests, the grader of work, the chief in this classroom. Do you believe this?"
and the student said:
"Yes. I believe that you are the professor, the teacher of the classroom."
In such a situation, we would clearly identify that believing that the first speaker is "the professor, the teacher [of the] classroom", is believing that he is "the dispenser of homework assignments, the dispenser of tests, the grader of work, the chief in [the] classroom."
This is common sense!
To believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, in its Johannine, soteric usage, is to believe that Jesus is the Resurrection and Life, the Guarantor of eternal life to the believer in Him!
Martha's answer is nothing but a full blown Johannine confession! And it is the only other instance of the phrase consisting of the appositional construction "the Christ, the Son of God" (which we find only in Jn 11:27 & Jn 20:31)! Martha's answer fully discloses for us the import of the belief that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, which makes such belief salvific. John has gone through great pains to define for us how one receives everlasting life (which by the way is the topic of his gospel!). The bottom line for Jesus and John in his writing is that they want us to know, certainly, that we have everlasting life by trusting Jesus, for if we don't, we haven't exercised saving faith, we haven't believed "this"!
1 Timothy 1:16
However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe in Him [Jesus] for eternal life.
"The apostle Paul sums up what Martha, and every Christian, believes when they come to faith in Christ: "However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life" (1 Timothy 1:16). In order to be saved, we must believe on Jesus for everlasting life. On the basis of His death and resurrection, He always fulfills His guarantee to give everlasting life to all who believe in Him for it. Martha did not decide to believe in Jesus for eternal life. She was convinced of the truth of what Jesus said and hence she believed in Him in the biblical sense." (Bob Wilkin, Saving Faith in Focus, Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society)
Throughout the Johannine gospel, John uses the technical phrase denoting saving faith, "pisteuw eis" ("believe in"), in other words, believe in Jesus. Whenever, in any language, someone uses the phrase "believe in" something, the context determines what is the content of that belief.
There are no exceptions!
A quarterback telling a wide receiver, "I believe in you"
(quarterback trusts wide receiver that he can make the play)
A father telling his wife, "I believe in the babysitter"
(father trusts that the babysitter is qualified to take care of his children)
A passenger telling another, "I believe in the airline pilot"
(passenger trusts that the pilot is qualified to take care of his air travel)
A Narcotics Anonymous participant telling a friend, "I believe in the program"
(NA participant trusts that the program works)
The candidate for class president telling the assembly of students, "Believe in me!"
(prospective executive asking the student body to trust him to exceed their expectations in getting the job done)
The teenager telling his folks as he takes the family car out for the day, "Believe in me!"
(teen is asking that they trust him for the well-being of the car)
Jesus says, "whoever believes in Me will not perish but has everlasting life. The one who believes in Me will live. The one who believes in Me shall never die, even into eternity."
Why the disconnect?!!
The context is eternal well-being, and Jesus is saying He is the Savior from perishing and the Guarantor of eternal life! Whoever trusts in Him as the one guaranteeing that they will never perish, but have eternal life, will never perish but have eternal life. The gospel of John is full of these passages and contexts. When He says, "Whoever believes in me shall never perish but have everlasting life" the context is clear. He is eliciting trust in Him FOR the guarantee that they will not perish and FOR everlasting life.
This is the meaning of "believe in" Him in those many contexts in the gospel of John. Jesus is saying, "Believe in Me!", in other words, "Trust Me for your eternal well-being!" There is no other way to take these passages and contexts. You will injure simple interpretation of them by taking them in any other way. Jesus is seeking to get them to rely upon Him for their eternal destinies. He shows Himself authoritative so that people will trust Him.
If I said "I believe in the babysitter" in the context of going out for the evening with my wife, let it be known I certainly mean that I am entrusting the well-fare of my children to the babysitter. When Jesus says that "...whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life" (Jn 3:16) the context is clear. He wants us to entrust our eternal destiny to Him. If I do believe in Him, as the John 3:16 context shows for us, I know that I have everlasting life and will never perish, for the guarantee is inexorably linked to His promise.
Saving faith is believing in Jesus for everlasting life. It is trusting Jesus to guarantee your eternal well-being.
We all agree that saving faith is believing in Jesus. But that statement is useless and worthless without a context. When I say I believe in the babysitter, I don't mean I trust her with my taxes or medical diagnosis! Believing in the babysitter has an irreducible content based upon the context. And that is that you trust the care of your children into her hands.
The same with believing in Jesus. It is as simple as trusting your eternal care into His hands. And when you do that, you know FOR CERTAIN that you are saved. Why? Faith is conviction that something is true. If I believe in Jesus when He says all who believe in Him will never perish and have everlasting life, I consider it true. Therefore, I know I will never perish and I know I have everlasting life.
The saving message is "believe in Jesus"
not
"doubt in Jesus"
The gospel of John is not complex. It is very simple, and he states the saving message throughout the gospel. WHOEVER, no exceptions, believes in Him (and in the context we know that believing in Him is entrusting our eternal destiny to Him, in other words, believing in Him FOR eternal life) has everlasting life. If someone reads the gospel of John and doesn't get that message, I would suggest they take the blindfolds off.
Romans 4:20-22
He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore "it was accounted to him for righteousness."
Why was Abraham accounted righteous? Simply because he believed that what God had promised He was able to perform. In other words, Abraham trusted God for the promise, therefore he was accounted righteous.
A friend who once held the view that I take stated the following about this verse: "they need to know His promise and they need to be fully convinced that what He promised He is also able to perform." I say, Amen! And if they are fully convinced of His promise, they know they have it, thus assurance being of the essence of saving faith.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him might still perish, but at least has eternal life for the time being." (Pseudo Jn 3:16)
Is this a saving understanding of this verse?
"And I give them eternal life, and they might still perish; and someone might snatch them out of My hand." (Pseudo Jn 10:28)
Is a hope-so confidence about going to heaven good enough?
Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." (Jn 4:10)
Does it really matter if you know what the gift is?
Jesus answered and said to her, "Everyone who drinks of this water shall thirst again; and whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him might thirst again; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life, well, maybe." (Pseudo Jn 4:13-14)
Could it really be said that the woman believed Jesus if she reinterpreted His words in this manner?
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" (Jn 11:25-26)
Does it really make any difference if you "believe this"?
Can you believe Jesus or believe in Jesus in the manner He describes without believing "this"? And what is "this," but that the believer is guaranteed eternal life?
posted by Antonio at 11:57 PM
11 Comments:
Excellent post.
By
Matthew Celestine, at Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:54:00 AM
This is a brilliant post brother! It always encourages me and strengthens my faith to read your posts!
God bless you,
Andrew
By
Andrew McNeill, at Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:44:00 PM
Great post Antonio!
By
Anonymous, at Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:40:00 PM
Antonio I agree with your understanding regarding the salvific import of Christ as being the guarantor of eternal life but I don’t find that the content of saving faith is equivalent to the salvific import of the Christ. I think there are a great many facts concerning Christ that are of great salvific import.
It seems you condition everlasting life on believing Jesus’ assurance that He will give it to those who believe in Him but you also add the phrase, “for it" where the scriptures do not. Are not those who accept the testimony of God concerning His Son counted righteous and isn’t it these who receive everlasting life? Would you agree that the testimony of God within us that is the assurance of everlasting life comes from the indwelling Holy Spirit? If so then would you say this assurance or certainty is also given apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit or that the Holy Spirit indwells the person prior to faith in Christ? I have great difficulty accepting that an unbeliever could have any assurance of everlasting life prior to believing in Jesus Christ. In your opinion how would Jesus’ promise relate to those who reject God’s testimony concerning His Son?
John 6:69 records that Peter acknowledged his belief that Jesus is Christ, the Son of the living God immediately after stating his conviction that Jesus had the words of eternal life in vs. 68. Peter believed Jesus had the words of eternal life because he believed in Him as Christ, the Son of God as opposed to those who had sought Jesus for what He would give them. In John 4:25 the Samaritan woman at the well similarly associates the Christ as being the one who “will tell us all things”. Many later came to believe in Jesus because of her testimony, “Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did”. She made no mention of eternal life yet many believed in Him. Is it then such a stretch to perceive Martha’s response in a similar manner? She said, “yea Lord” with her affirmation being followed by her reason for believing this, “I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world”.
By
Kc, at Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:37:00 PM
I will say you provide the best arguments for eternal security I've ever heard! ;-)
By
Kc, at Sunday, December 30, 2007 6:42:00 PM
Hi Antonio
Very Good!!!
As the saying goes "you can lead them to the water but you cant make them drink!"
And you do a very good job of leading people to the cristal clear water. That's our focus not to see how little one needs to believe to be saved but being accurate on what really saves! If we dont have that straight were only clouding the water.
It's as simple as a drink of water. But with the water that Jesus offers, it's one drink and you will never thirst again! Jesus wants anyone who desires to take of this water freely.
Just simply believe Jesus for His gift of eternal life!
If your thirsty just drink!! You don't have to analize the water first in order for it to quench your thirst. Just simply take Jesus at His Word and when you do you know you will never thirst again!!!
blessings to all in this New Year!!! alvin
By
alvin, at Monday, December 31, 2007 5:25:00 PM
Antonio,
I read this post. I think it is very thought provoking and for that I am glad. However, I do not completely follow your logic in one area.
What you say is appositional, I see as elaborative. :~)
I have an example which is a modification and I think a better example than the professor one:
A mother says this to a child she is adopting: "I am the dispenser of discipline, the dispenser of chores, the evaluater of your behavior, the keeper of our home. Do you believe this?"
and the child says:
"Yes. I believe that you are the mother."
Now does that mean that discipline is the main function of the mother? Not necessarily. Does this demonstrate that discipline is the only function of the mother? No. Does this mean that we can say the things that are listed equal the title "mother"? No, of course not. The child is recognising who she is and in that bigger picture - the picture of "mother" - which includes many things and functions, is included "the one who disciplines."
To correspond to the thesis in the post, the child would say, "Yes, you are the disciplinarian" if "Christ, Son of God" meant only "He who guarantees eternal life" to Martha in her statement. I think Martha knew that she was encountering God, the Son. I think she knew there was a divine being standing before her - her sister knew it too - or else why would they worship him? (This doesn't mean they understood the trinity, no - neither do I "understand" it!)
In the same way, when I see it said that "the Christ" and the "Son of God" means "He who guarantees eternal life" in that passage, it just doesn't sit right with me. I think Martha was recognising that yes, Jesus could give her eternal life because He was this Person who was so awesome - the "Son of God" - of course He could do that for her. I think her profession went beyond answering the question that she was asked. She elaborated as to WHY Christ could secure her future. He was Christ, "God, the Son." The same way the child elaborates on why the mother can tell him what to do - because she is the mother.
I hope you see my point, brother.
I do appreciate your point in the post about trusting Him fully in regards to eternity being central at the moment of saving faith, although I still think there may be exceptions. :~)
Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." (Jn 4:10)
Here again, I can't miss that He says if you knew the gift of God AND WHO IT IS...
John's gospel is full of reference to His deity - and for me to think that these statements are only referring to the gift that Christ can give - eternal life - and not about the bigger picture of WHO He is... this is impossible for me to swallow.
But I do appreciate you very much Antonio and I like the way you really cause me to think. ;~)
By
Rose~, at Tuesday, January 01, 2008 9:41:00 PM
...and I am glad to be a part of this blog ... and I am glad to have met you in California, Antonio ...and I am glad to be your friend and Matthew's.
By
Rose~, at Tuesday, January 01, 2008 9:43:00 PM
First, you have me read wrong. Jesus being the Christ, the Son of God, is NOT appositional to His statement that He is the Guarantor of eternal life and resurrection to the believer in Him for it. In this you have a great misunderstanding! In my post, what I have said is appositional is the titles "the Christ" and "the Son of God"!
Furthermore, let us use your example, Rose, because it illustrates my point.
A mother says this to a child she is adopting: "I am the dispenser of discipline, the dispenser of chores, the evaluater of your behavior, the keeper of our home. Do you believe this?"
and the child says:
"Yes. I believe that you are the mother."
Rose, I don't understand your parsing. It is clearly shown that to believe that this woman is those 4 things IS to believe that this woman is the mother.
Imagine this, a brother saying this to another brother:
"Dude! She is the one who who will put you on restriction if you do bad, or the one who can make your life better by giving you privileges if you are good!"
then the other brother saying,
"No duh, dude! She is mom!"
What has been established is functions of the mom.
In the same way with Jesus' discourse with Martha, the Apostle John, in the great fashion that he does, has filled the meaning of "the Christ, the Son of God" with soteriological import.
What was the point of Jesus' question? It was that Jesus wanted Martha to believe that Jesus was the Guarantor of eternal life to all who simply believe in Him for it!
But what is this belief but exactly what it means to "believe in" Him as in such passages as John 3:16 and 6:47! Remember! Jesus says that anyone who "believes in Him" has everlasting life and is born again. But John also says "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (1 John 5:1).
IF WE UNDERSTAND THAT EITHER ONE OF THESE STATEMENTS ARE SUFFICIENT IN DECLARING THE CONDITION OF EVERLASTING LIFE, we must admit that they are EQUAL.
The bottom line that John wants us to understand (that his readers probably didn't know or attribute to the concept of "the Christ") is this:
AS THE CHRIST, Jesus gives eternal life to all who believe in Him for it. AND WHEN you understand the Christ in this way and believe Jesus to be the Christ, you have everlasting life!
I am sure that by this time you know that the term "the Christ" has alot of legitimate content to it. For instance, it is the annointed of God, who is to reign forever as King! There is a sense that a person can LEGITIMATELY state that they believe that Jesus is the Christ, only understanding that He is the annointed and promised King of the world who will set up an eternal kingdom.
But John (quoting Jesus) wants men and women to "believe in" Jesus in the manner that this post has shown, because this is the condition for everlasting life. One must trust in Jesus for eternal life. Yet is the man who believes (legitimately) that Jesus is the Christ IN THE SENSE SHOWN ABOVE born again? No. Because he has not, like Martha, understood, that Jesus, as the Christ, guarantees eternal life to whoever believes in Him.
What makes John's statements true (John 20:31 and 1 John 5:1) that whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ has everlasting life and is born again, is when the import of "believing in" Him is present in the content of the title "the Christ". It thus would go like this:
1) I believe that the Christ is the guarantor of eternal life to all who believe in Him for it
2) I believe that Jesus is the Christ
thus
3) I believe that Jesus guarantees eternal life to all who believe in Him for it
or in other words
I believe in Jesus!
Your reasoning, Rose, leaves open the idea that someone can believe that Jesus is the Christ in its non Johannine and soteric sense and yet be born again. But this would directly contradict your statements to me in other posts and on the phone that you understand believing in Jesus as trusting in Him for eternal life. You said yourself that your mom understands Jesus to the the Christ and God but that she is trusting in her works.
As with your insistence that one must believe the deity of Jesus, you have yet to state any evidence whatsoever that one must do so. The title "Son of God" does not clearly denote deity, and it is certain and in many legitimate senses, that I can believe that Jesus is the Son of God and not believe that He is God. You have assumed what you have not even given any evidence toward.
You say that John's gospel is full of references to his deity, which I will stipulate that there are references there. But there are many references there showing that the disicples did not understand His deity! After three years of ministry Jesus said "If you had known me, you would have known my Father" and "Have I been with you SO[OOOOOOO] LONG[!!!] and yet YOU HAVE NOT KNOWN ME?[!!!] He who has seen Me has seen the Father!" (John 14:7,9).
you write:
I think Martha knew that she was encountering God, the Son. I think she knew there was a divine being standing before her - her sister knew it too - or else why would they worship him?
You sure do put alot of confidence into that which you only "think'! The Apostle John understood that the angel in front of him was not God, yet he "worshipped" him. Worship is a word that is used for honor and respect of people with whom someone finds "worth". It is a normal word used in the Greek of that time denoting the reverence given to officials and the such.
Antonio
By
Antonio, at Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:49:00 AM
Rose,
And BTW,
thanks for the kind sentiments and love.
:)
I have the same feelings toward you.
Despite what some say about you, I think you are swell!
Your lovey, dovey, co-blogger,
Antonio
By
Antonio, at Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:40:00 PM
Hi Antonio/Rose
First off I would like to state that the Apostle John when writing his Gospel made clear in his prolog that Jesus was Jehovah God. By introducing the Son as the Word (Logos) John 1:1 and in verse 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[f] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
But I believe in the narrative the disciples and also the ones who believed in Jesus as the Christ did not understand that Jesus was God. They believed in the One God of the Old Testament, and that you could not look upon God and live. They did not understand that the One true God was standing before them and that He had laid aside His glory so they could look upon Him. I believe they believed in Jesus in the Messianic sense, that He was the son of Joseph, the King of Israel from the line of David the Son of God. That God had given Him what to say and when He spoke He was speaking as God representing God.
This is a Messianic description of Jesus
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! Psalm 53
John 1:34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.” This could be understood as the Son of God as coming from the line of David. Because God called David's son His own son, as a son of God. 1 Chronicles 28: 5 And of all my sons (for the LORD has given me many sons) He has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the LORD over Israel. 6 Now He said to me, ‘It is your son Solomon who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be My son, and I will be his Father. 7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom forever,
John 1:37 The two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus. 38 Then Jesus turned, and seeing them following, said to them, “What do you seek?”
They said to Him, “Rabbi” (which is to say, when translated, Teacher), “where are You staying?”
40 One of the two who heard John speak, and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother. 41 He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated, the Christ).
45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the law, and also the prophets, wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
49 Nathanael answered and said to Him, “Rabbi, You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”
If His disciples new He was God why would they marvel that He would talk to a women? John 4:27 And at this point His disciples came, and they marveled that He talked with a woman; yet no one said, “What do You seek?” or, “Why are You talking with her?”
29 “Come, see a Man who told me all things that I ever did. Could this be the Christ?”
Rose notice in this following verse Jesus doesn't use scripture to prove His Deity but uses scripture to make the case for using Son of God in His humanity. His argument seems to be if Judges were called god's by God why do you want to stone Me for calling myself the Son of God?
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?[c] 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?
Psalm 82 6 I said, “You are gods,[b]
And all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But you shall die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
Why would the disciples be so concerned if they new Jesus was God?
John 11:8 The disciples said to Him, “Rabbi, lately the Jews sought to stone You, and are You going there again?”
Rose if Martha believed Jesus was God why did she say if you asked God He would give Him as if Jesus Himself wasn't God?
John 11: 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”
11:39 Jesus said, “Take away the stone.”
Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, “Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days.”
40 Jesus said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?”
If they new God was standing right before them do you think they would have questioned His ability to raise a dead man that had been rotting four days?
Jesus meets them where they are, else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
John 14:7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
Now we know? Do they?
John 16:29 His disciples said to Him, “See, now You are speaking plainly, and using no figure of speech! 30 Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.”
31 Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe?
John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas,[d] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Here a born again believer finally calls Jesus God!
I believe Son of God and Christ are interchangeable as Zane does.
John 9:
John 9:34 They answered and said to him, “You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?” And they cast him out.
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, “Do you believe in the Son of God?”[a]
36 He answered and said, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 And Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.”
38 Then he said, “Lord, I believe!” And he worshiped Him.
Rose to believe in the Son of God was to believe in the Christ the One who gives life! As in 1 John 5:1a Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.
1 John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[a] faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
So in closing I believe that anyone can believe in Jesus for His promise of eternal life without having to believe that He is God just as the ones did in the narrative of John's Gospel. He said that His words were not His own but were from the Father and because of His miracles they believed Him.
blessings alvin
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alvin, at Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:26:00 PM
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