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What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness ...
(Romans 4:1-5)

Wednesday, April 23, 2008

Drumstick, anyone?

by Rose

So often in coversations regarding the future 1000 reign of Jesus Chirst on the earth - the Kingdom that was promised - Amillennialists (those who say there is no 1000 year reign) accuse those who believe in a literal kingdom as being carnal or earthly in our expectations. They claim that the kingdom of God is within the believer now and that it is a purely spiritual thing. To expect that Christ will actually rule physical beings, a physical earth, as the promised Son of David, in a tangible, concrete way is somehow too materialistic. Alva McClain shares a humorous, but quite pointed story in regards to this charge:

During a church banquet a group of preachers were discussing the nature of the kingdom of God. One expressed his adherence to the premillenial view of a literal kingdom... To this a rather belligerent 200 pound preacher snorted, "Ridiculous! Such an idea is nothing but materialism." When asked to state his own view, he replied, "The kingdom is a spiritual matter. The kingdom of God has already been established, and is within you. Don't you gentlmen know that the Kingdom is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost?" And the speaker reached hungrily across the table and speared another enormous piece of fried chicken!... At the risk of being thought tiresome, let me recite the obvious conclusion: If the Kingdom of God can exist now now on earth in a 200 hundred pound preacher full of fried chickien, without any reprehensible materialistic connotations, perhaps it could also exist in the same way among men on earth who will at times be eating and drinking under more perfect conditions in a future millennial kingdom."

~Alva McClain, The Greatness of the Kingdom

posted by Rose~ at 9:50 AM

8 Comments:

  • Rose,

    very humourous indeed.

    Furthermore, the eschatology of Amillennialists is quite anti-climatic.

    Walvoord, at a banquet I attended where he was the speaker, stated quite humorously that maybe in the kingdom God would allow him to give a remedial course in prophecy to Amills.

    I look forward to a literal kingdom on earth where righteousness will reign as the culmination of history.

    Your fg brother,

    Antonio

    By Blogger Antonio, at Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:09:00 AM  

  • I have heard you American Baptists like your food.

    One day you will find the time to read McClain's book. It is good.

    God Bless

    Matthew

    By Blogger Matthew Celestine, at Wednesday, April 23, 2008 10:54:00 AM  

  • Hi

    One of the things that I honestly find heard to grasp re: the 1,000 year reign on earth is that if I die first and go to Heaven, then I leave sin (both in myself and others) behind and live in a glorious sin free envoirnment. Well and good.

    Do I then come back to earth in the Millenium and live with unconverted people who, although restrained, are still basically wicked in their hearts and whose wickedness will eventually break out near the end of the Millenium?

    As I say, I do struggle with this thought.

    Regards,

    By Blogger Colin Maxwell, at Wednesday, April 23, 2008 12:54:00 PM  

  • Antonio,
    I am glad you enjoyed it. I also think there is an anticlima[{c}]tic element to Amillenialism. ;~)

    I think I remember someone else once saying that they wanted to give lessons to others in the future state. :~) They were really given some hassale over saying that. I wonder if anyone gave Walvoord such a hard time. teehee

    Matthew,
    I suppose I should make it clear that I have not read the book "The Greatness of the Kingdom" by Alva McClain. The quote I offer was from McClain's book and quoted by Charles Ryrie in his book "Dispensationalism."

    I wouldn't want anyone to think I had read more books than I actually have. ;~) ;~)

    We do like our food, but our pies are usually fruit filled, not full of all that fattening meat. :~)

    By Blogger Rose~, at Friday, April 25, 2008 7:05:00 AM  

  • Colin Maxwell,
    I appreciate you expressing your concern. I see it.

    "We shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

    I would think that if the Lord is administering the earth and we are with him, it is not going to be a terrrible heartache for us.

    I am aware that there are differing schools of thought on this, about exactly where the saints will be. Matthew could tell you something about it - or I could if I took the time to do a little reading, but right now I can't - too busy. Maybe Matthew will add to the coversation, but maybe he is AWOL right now - I haven't 'seen' him.

    ...or maybe I will get 'round to doing that reading and come back and surprise you. :~)

    (I Thess. 4) The bottom line is: it is a comfort to know that wherever the Lord is, that is where I am going to be also. Whatever He is doing and dealing with, I want to see it. I am sure it will not be burdensome, but joyful to be with Him!... and full of the rightness of being free of my own sinful nature.

    By Blogger Rose~, at Friday, April 25, 2008 7:26:00 AM  

  • Colin, I think it likely that Christ and His risen saints may be physically in heaven during the Millennium.

    Spiritually our position is heavenly. But our government will be exercised in relation to Christ's administration centred in Jerusalem.

    The Scriptures are not clear about everything we should like to know about the kingdom. Though I think it tells us more than some Christians give it credit for.

    Every Blessing in Christ

    Matthew

    By Blogger Matthew Celestine, at Friday, April 25, 2008 12:09:00 PM  

  • Good morning Rose/Good afternoon Matthew:

    Colin, I think it likely that Christ and His risen saints may be physically in heaven during the Millennium.

    That's all interesting point, Matthew. So we will have then a Millenial paradise, minus the risen saints (both already dead and the living raptured) and Christ, but a 1,000 year glorious reign but still with the restrained wicked eventually breaking loose?

    (BTW: I am not asking these questions in this particular posting, as I often do on these blogs, to expose weaknesses in an opposite view. Or at least, I am not asking because I am convinced of the opposite opinions)

    Regards,

    By Blogger Colin Maxwell, at Sunday, April 27, 2008 8:16:00 AM  

  • Wherever Christ and the Saints are, their government will be manifested and exercised on the earth.

    By Blogger Matthew Celestine, at Tuesday, April 29, 2008 12:39:00 AM  

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