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Underlying Issues?
by Rose
When interacting on a blog in regards to whether or not a believer can be in sin for his whole life, one Reformed commenter said this to me:
"This view ... will be great news for anyone that would like to indulge their sinful nature. "
I will leave him nameless so as not to offend. I am not trying to pick on him.
It occurred to me that perhaps this fear of sinning, indulgent Christians is what has driven the LS proponents to insist that real Christians WILL NOT indulge in sins. Maybe they think they are discouraging Christians away from the real possibility of "indulging their sinful nature."
Why not give a little more credit to the life of God within? Even though some of us fail - even miserably for our whole lives - we don't need to sham eachother into avoidance of sinful ifestyles by presenting fears over whether or not we could really be saved by faith alone.
When interacting on a blog in regards to whether or not a believer can be in sin for his whole life, one Reformed commenter said this to me:
"This view ... will be great news for anyone that would like to indulge their sinful nature. "
I will leave him nameless so as not to offend. I am not trying to pick on him.
It occurred to me that perhaps this fear of sinning, indulgent Christians is what has driven the LS proponents to insist that real Christians WILL NOT indulge in sins. Maybe they think they are discouraging Christians away from the real possibility of "indulging their sinful nature."
Why not give a little more credit to the life of God within? Even though some of us fail - even miserably for our whole lives - we don't need to sham eachother into avoidance of sinful ifestyles by presenting fears over whether or not we could really be saved by faith alone.
posted by Rose~ at 7:52 AM
8 Comments:
Great topic Rose.
Calling Jesus Lord, or "making" Him "Lord of my life" doesn't increase His true Lordship at all. He IS Lord. If I put my faith in Him I WILL be Saved and WILL be treated as a son.
He'll not spare the rod with me (I know this very well from experience) Heb 12 WILL apply.
That's the funny thing about Lordship Salvation - it's like they don't really trust that He IS Lord, they put all the emphasis on us "making" Him Lord.
One thing Paul Washer gets right is in saying "There's not a maverick molecule in the Universe." Jesus IS Lord - not matter what I may think about it.
I really think preaching a change of life to be saved is putting a stumbling block in front of people.
Kev
By
Kevl, at Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:23:00 AM
I agree Kevl. I think your comment is better than my post!
By
Rose~, at Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:36:00 AM
Rose,
I believe that Zane Hodges has stated outright that Lordship salvation began because moral Christians were offended by the lifestyles of people who professed to be Christians yet led immoral lives.
I do not know how to articulate the Lordship salvation position completely (some from that camp are free to go into detail). It appears to me that because of their belief in Calvinist perserverance (as opposed to eternal security) they just don't believe that a true believer could be as openly immoral as some are and still be saved. I have tried to argue that believers never get away with anything and that God punishes them but my argument has never been persuasive. Temporal punishment and loss of eternal rewards is never enough.
Glenn W.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:53:00 AM
Hi Glenn,
I have never had an original thought in my life! haha
Yes, I remember reading that from Hodges, now that you mention it. It did occurr to me afresh when I read that comment, though that I refer to in my post.
Thanks for visiting!
By
Rose~, at Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:15:00 AM
Glenn:
LS flows from a Calvinistic theology. The Lordship/Calvinists I deal with, who hold to all five points, do believe in eternal security.
The perseverance aspect leads them to have problems with carnality, which is sadly fairly common place.
"Never saved in the first place" is what it leads to when they think they've seen enough carnality.
LM
By
Lou Martuneac, at Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:47:00 AM
Lou,
You are correct, I incorrectly contrasted perserverance with eternal security. I do know that Calvinists believe in eternal security.
I have seen so many comments from Calvinist/Reformed bloggers that a believer cannot commit certain sins (God would not permit the elect to do such a thing) that I do confuse perserverance and eternal security at times.
Glenn W.
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:11:00 PM
Glennw! Thanks! wow you just completed a thought my poor ol brain has been trying to work out for months.
I never liked "preserverence of the Saints" because of the idea that Salvation was maintained instead of secured.
But I never connected the dots! You said It appears to me that because of their belief in Calvinist perserverance (as opposed to eternal security) they just don't believe that a true believer could be as openly immoral as some are and still be saved.
That's IT! THAT's where the mental hangup is. It's the presupposition (isn't it always?) that is the problem for their thinking.
THANK YOU!
Kev
By
Kevl, at Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:30:00 PM
HI Rose. Trent here, I follow Antonio's blog so I probably won't see anything you reply here. :) caught your link here and thought I would comment. You can email me if you like via Antonio, and he can give you my email.
"This view ... will be great news for anyone that would like to indulge their sinful nature. "
Does not matter if its good news or bad. What matters is what the Bible says. I get tired of people saying these kind of things. The bottom line is, Does God's word tell the truth or not?
By
Anonymous, at Wednesday, June 27, 2007 3:29:00 PM
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